P0 F1 F2 F3 - This Is Where It Begins To Get Confusing

Who would have thought such a simple comment made in complete ignorance and innocence would cause such a flourish of conversation?

I apologise in advance, this is a very long and complicated blog post...but you may just learn something, or have it clarified if you read to the end :)

On the AusAqua Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/ausaqua/ (and if you're going there, you should also go to, and join, the AusAqua forum here), I made the announcement that my Marble Dragon HMPK male had successfully wrapped with one of my Turquoise female CT's, and that this was the first step in my journey to breeding a line of CTPK, but, I was aware that decent form fish to work with were not likely to show up until F3.

This was answered with another breeder who was aiming for their own line of CTPK mentioning his F1 CTPK spawn had failed last week :(

Another fellow Betta fancier and breeder new to it all asked a straight forward question - a similar question to what I had asked on the AusAqua forum, a similar question to what many fish breeders have asked before when seeing such a comment for the first time: What does F3 and F1 mean?

So having looked all this up previously, and while still being involved in a thread conversation on the forum about this very topic, I answered somewhat generically:

Generations - the spawn of this pair will be the first generation and therefore are designated F1. Their children will be F2, and so on...so the great grand kids of this pair will be F3 :) The F stands for filial I believe.

50+ comments later, I think all involved in the conversation has come to the decision to either agree to disagree, or, due to the input of more experienced Betta breeders than I, we now all agree.

So, in an effort to summarize the conclusion of the conversation:

(The first part comes from an AAQ member and someone I've found to be very knowledgeable on most things, if not all things, Betta. Unfortunately, I've not been able to contact him to gain permission to name him or quote him. Paraphrasing would allow me to say that he defined the term filial - which bore out my understanding of the use of the numbering system as Betta breeders were using it.

A dictionary meaning: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/filial:

1. Of, relating to, or befitting a son or daughter: filial respect.

2. Having or assuming the relationship of child or offspring to parent.

3. Genetics Of or relating to a generation or the sequence of generations following the parental generation. 

This means, when you get unrelated male and female fish, whether that be from different places (two different breeders/pet stores/imports), or an unrelated pair from a single source, then the designation for this pair would be P0 (P = parents of new line of fish, or the first pair).

However, if you get a sibling pair from any of the above mentioned sources (or anywhere else for that matter), then they may be a second, third, or even later generation fish of their line already. This why it is important to ask the source as much as possible about the background of any sibling pairs.

NOTE* As a matter of course, a serious line breeder should really be getting as much background information in any case - for individuals and pairs.

All the above information was arrived at between the Facebook comments of the above mentioned AAQ member, Jarrod Nielson, and Michael Chang (who also happen to be AAQ members but also respected Australian Betta breeders), along with comments from members in a thread on AusAqua commenced by Jarrod. (Join the forum!)

If you have sourced a sibling pair, and the general rule of thumb (for line breeders) is to outcross around F4 or F5 (fourth or fifth generation), then spawning a couple of generations of sibling pairs should be fine, but watch for increased deformities or undesired traits creeping in. If noticed, then outcrossing should be next on your agenda.

For example, if your source has told you the sibling pair is F3, then you should be safe to extend and solidify the traits you admire most from the original pair, in selective breeding by picking a sibling pair from their spawn, and another sibling pair from a subsequent spawn (which would be F4 and F5), but keep an eye out for increasing chances of deformities. Come F5, or increased deformities (which ever comes first), cross breeding (bringing in a new fish with additional traits you admire while retaining as many of the original traits as possible) would be a necessity.

Okay - so this is all getting extremely long winded and confusing, and the caveats are intruding way too much on each point.

But that's one of the problems here. Anyone can throw a male and female together and provide a suitable breeding environment and be lucky enough to get fry. I don't have an issue with that. Individuals who do this are enjoying the Betta, and delving into the great hobby of breeding these magnificent fish. In time, I imagine (and hope) they will become better educated and begin keeping better documentation on who they are breeding with who. They will take note of what they are breeding and eventually produce better fish. By this time, they need to be aware of how to keep records of the fish they breed.

But for the serious breeder, and particularly for those trying to create a line of fish with particular form, they need to keep track of which generation they are working with. The easiest way to do this is with filial designation - the F numbering system.

The second problem is those who believe this method of designation is only for specific purposes. I would respectfully put these people in the purist corner. Individuals aligning themselves with this way of thinking are quick to discredit anyone who uses the filial designation method in a different area of study than it was first intended for.

Before I step down from this rising pulpit, I would add this: we may only be hobbyists, but we are also real fish breeders and real enthusiasts trying to reach specific goals. We are trying to maintain wild species, and improve current show species standards. We are also experimenting and trying to create something new and wonderful. Yes, we may have taken a scientific process and barstardized it to fit our needs, but that does not make it wrong. As it improves what we, as fish breeders, are trying to achieve, I would suggest that it is just right!

Points to remember:

P0 = first unrelated pairing (male and female not related).
F1 = first generation spawn from P0
F2 = spawn result from at least one member of F1 (brother x sister; father x daughter; mother x son)
F3 = spawn result from at least one member of F2 ( brother x sister; father x daughter; mother x son; son x grandmother; daughter x grandfather)
F4; F5 would continue and extend the possible pairings suggested above.

Around F4/F5, a line breeder must be looking to introduce new blood to strength the selected traits and further enhance the line towards the end goal, while not diluting results obtained so far.

Ask about the background of any fish you purchase from breeders.

Join the AusAqua Forum! (they will be able explain all this much better than my fumbling attempts)

There is no wrong or right. There is no try...just do. And above anything else, enjoy and be good to your fish and those who have joined in your passion.

Can't leave you without a pic of the guy that started all this:

 

Jason floating his eggs under the cup because he never mastered the bubblenest